Oh, those whacky Baptists!
I got into a debate the other night while playing Spades with some Baptists. I love a good chat about faith, politics, and batting averages, but it came down to this: most Baptists believe in the salvation theory of "Once Saved, Always Saved".
I had never really thought about my salvation in those terms, but as he presented his Scriptural understanding of the issue, I could see how he came to that conclusion. I guess at the moment he said it, I didn't believe that particular philosophy, because I was appalled when he made the statement. Now as I put that statement on and wear it around, I like the way it looks on me. I may keep it.
I just wanted some feedback: "Once Saved, Always Saved"? I'm still pondering, but I liked his presentation in retrospect. I've never read anything in the scriptures that makes our salvation conditional upon our behavior, so I'm wondering how I attained my skewed tenant. I really want to hear from you guys on this one. I've always been Non-denominational, so let me know your denomination and your belief, and tell me if this is a personal or denominational point of view.
My take on this proposition at the moment is that I see a lot of scriptures that deal with how we should live after we've made the decision to follow Christ, but none on why He would choose to walk away from us for a particular act. So are the Baptists right?!? Discuss...
I got into a debate the other night while playing Spades with some Baptists. I love a good chat about faith, politics, and batting averages, but it came down to this: most Baptists believe in the salvation theory of "Once Saved, Always Saved".
I had never really thought about my salvation in those terms, but as he presented his Scriptural understanding of the issue, I could see how he came to that conclusion. I guess at the moment he said it, I didn't believe that particular philosophy, because I was appalled when he made the statement. Now as I put that statement on and wear it around, I like the way it looks on me. I may keep it.
I just wanted some feedback: "Once Saved, Always Saved"? I'm still pondering, but I liked his presentation in retrospect. I've never read anything in the scriptures that makes our salvation conditional upon our behavior, so I'm wondering how I attained my skewed tenant. I really want to hear from you guys on this one. I've always been Non-denominational, so let me know your denomination and your belief, and tell me if this is a personal or denominational point of view.
My take on this proposition at the moment is that I see a lot of scriptures that deal with how we should live after we've made the decision to follow Christ, but none on why He would choose to walk away from us for a particular act. So are the Baptists right?!? Discuss...
posted by Shawn Passwaters at
1:22 PM
3 Comments:
Tamara
Age: 24
Where: San Diego, CA.
Affiliation: Non-Denominational, however currently attending a Church that associates but does not necessarily follow the Assemblies of God.
This is an interesting point you bring up Shawn. I was recently faced with the same dilemma.
When my sister died there was speculation that it may have been suicide. With that kind of situation there is always the wondering if, because suicide is a sin, will that person not go to heaven?
I always grew up with this same kind of assumption you had, that somehow God's grace doesn’t' extend to those who used to follow him but have fallen away and the "once saved, always saved" never really was thought about. But when my uncle, who is Baptist from the bottom of his toes all the way to the tip of the tallest hair on his head, brought it up to me I had no real, tangible argument. I couldn’t think of anything that contradicted that. I recall a verse about a sin that God would not forgive but I don’t even know where that is in the Bible.
So like you I can’t disagree but at the same time I have a hard time taking this on as truth.
On one hand there is God’s grace and on the other hand, if this was taken as truth by every Christian and we didn’t feel the need to live like Christians because “heck, I made that decision when I was 11 and ‘once saved always saved’ so what does it matter what I do”, then the world would be chaotic.
My final decision? I guess after all of this it doesn’t really matter. Its between the individual and God when they die. But just in case it is not true, I am gonna go ahead and live as Christ like as I can.
Here's my deal... at least here's what I struggle with... Oh non-demoninational.
God's gift is free to those who accept it. But once I accept it, I don't have a choice to give it up anymore? Free will is no longer free will in my mind at that point.
I'm assuming he believes that God chooses who is saved (who receives His grace to respond to His offer)and who isn't.
So if that is the belief, I understand his point, God's gonna save someone if he wants to save them, who could stop him, he's God.
But back to what I believe... salvation is an offered to the whole world, for God loves the whole world, and whoever believes will not perish.
And I believe he is patient, not wanting "any" to perish.
I believe people can walk away, even though this saddens me... I'm with Tamara, I'm striving to be more like Jesus and trusting God with my life... here today and when I move on.
Wendy
Age: 4 plus the inverse of Tamara's age
Where: San Diego
Affiliation: Disciples of Christ, the liberal ones
It is so weird that you posted this today. In a weak moment today, I was listening to Christian radio. They were discussing this same issue.
I have always been taught and believed that salvation is strongly tied to our free will. We can, at any time, turn our back on God and recant our beliefs only to unrecant and become a Christian again on our death bed. It sucks, but thats what free will is.
Then today, the arguement became interesting to me because the caller stated, "If we are a new creation in Christ how can we lose that? Can we uncreate what God and the Holy Spirit did? Wow we must be powerful."
Hmm I hate it when someone presents a harmony of concepts that I have never harmonized for myself. I like to keep things in the neat little boxes stacked in silos just like I was taught. Then someone comes along and knocks them all down and puts them back interrelatedly. Shoot!
In the non-Calvinist world, we make the arguement that becoming a new creation is an ongoing, not a one-time, event in our lives. As we mature in Christ, we continue to become more like Him. We believe that salvation is 'worked out with fear and trembling'.
In the Calvinist world, we make the arguement that if someone falls away from Christ, well, then he was never really saved in the first place.
So either way...we are probably wrong. God must just get so freakin' frustrated to hear the modern arguements.
Do you ever wonder if this was discussed in Rome in the 3rd century, or on the Mayflower on the way over, or in Mali where 75% of the nation is illiterate? Or is this something our post-modern/over educated/intellectual mind needs to do to understand?
Either way - I just want in.
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